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Brockway: What did you think of the crowd tonight?
Buck 65: The crowd was paying attention. My music is really the type that you can't dance to, so I just try to make eye contact and make a connection with the person. I saw some people smile or laugh at some of my lyrics, and that let me know that people were paying attention. So that was good.

Brockway: This being your 2nd show in Fredericton, what were your expectations for the show?
Buck 65: To be honest with you, I really didn't know what to expect because there's probably a lot of people still watching TV (the World Trade Center attack occurred on the day of this interview)

Brockway: Yeah... I was still watching TV about five minutes before your show was supposed to start and I was having trouble pulling myself away.
Buck 65: So it was hard to know if they would stay watching TV or would want to get away and get out. We weren't sure.

Brockway: So this is your second time in Fredericton, right?
Buck 65: Yep.

Brockway: How would you compare the response this time as compared with the first time? As far as crowd support and the size of the crowd are concerned?
Buck 65: The first show was a while ago, so I kind of forget how it ended up feeling that night.

Brockway: How long ago was it?
Buck 65: It's been years. It was in The Barn. When I say 'The Barn', do you know what I'm talking about?

Brockway: I've heard of it...
Buck 65: I think it's where they have a farmer's market on the weekend, maybe? It wasn't the coziest or best spot for a show because it was this big steel roof building and the roof was really high. It became this big echo box. And it was a "rave."

Brockway: It being a rave, how did people react to your style of music. (which is not dance-oriented)
Buck 65: I think that when people go to raves, they want to dance. So it doesn't ever really make much sense for me to perform at such a show because I don't make danceable stuff. In fact, making people dance is usually the last things on my mind. And that's something I come up against with a lot of shows, depending on where I am. I could see tonight that with this big event, there are all kinds of other people involved with this tour. There are models here, who are modeling Donna Karan clothing. It's pretty funny because the models were trying to dance (to my music), but they couldn't. They gave up.

Brockway: Are the models on tour with you?
Buck 65: Yeah, but they have a separate bus.

Brockway: So did you get hooked up with Q-Burns Abstract Message?
Buck 65: Through my agent. My agent put the tour together. So I just met him today for the first time.

Brockway: Have you ever listened to any of his stuff or even know what he's like, before now?
Buck 65: A little, but only a little. But he's a nice guy though. He's playing right now, so I'll have to go figure out what he's all about.

Brockway: So the last cd that you released, was that 'Man Overboard'?
Buck 65: Yeah.

Brockway: When can we expect you to release your next album, 'Square'?
Buck 65: I'm debating it. I'm torn because I want to put it out soon, but I'm also shopping it. I do have a lot of interest, so now I'm not really rushing it. Because if I decide to go ahead and sign some sort of deal, then that's not something that you want to go ahead and rush into. You want to do that right. So I was feeling really anxious, due to the fact that it took three years to come out with 'Man Overboard' after it was completed. After that, I just really wanted to put out a record while it was new. I was leaving for this tour and I wanted to have something with me to sell, so I just decided in a week to make a new record. So I got some material together and took a day to record it. The album is called Synistisia, it's Language Arts Part 5. So it's the follow-up to 'Square' but it's out before 'Square'. But, I haven't gotten it back from the manufacturer yet. I'm hoping to have them by the end of the week. There's a new little label in Halifax that's just going to do hip hop called Endemic. So they're putting it out. And it should be out any day now.

Brockway: Three years for 'Man Overboard', that's a pretty long time.
Buck 65: Yeah

Brockway: How do you feel when your on stage performing that material. After 3 years, I'd think that you'd maybe get a little bit tired of it.
Buck 65: Yeah kinda. That's why I did mostly all new stuff tonight. It is tough when it takes so long. It does take the wind out of your sails for sure. But a lot of what I've done, like with 'Pants on Fire', I've put a lot of my heart into it and so if they were just songs for the sake of nothing or for the sake of people dancing then they probably would wear out really fast. But I try really hard to make material that timeless.

Brockway: Oh yeah, definitely. I'll be honest with you... I hadn't heard any of your other material other than 'Pants On Fire'. But when I saw you up there on stage, your lyrics were carrying you and people were listening to the lyrics instead of trying to catch the beat. That's part of why people weren't dancing. And it's really unique because you don't see people do that very often.
Buck 65: Yeah. That's my whole plan. My whole idea.

Brockway: The fact that you can find the words to rhyme a story for every song is...
Buck 65: ...is a challenge.

Brockway: And you have how many albums out?
Buck 65: The new one, Synistisia, that's Language Arts Part 5, so it's the fifth in the series. But I have albums before that as well. I've putting out records and selling them since 1992. All told, there's been something in the neighborhood of 15 releases, including singles.

Brockway: Having that much experience, how do you feel that the hip hop world has changed since when you first came into the scene?
Buck 65: Man, it has changed so, so much.

Brockway: What kind of response did you get when you were a white boy doing this back in 1992.
Buck 65: For that matter, I've been putting out records since then. But, I was rapping and b-boying sort of competitively, so long ago that it's embarrassing to say. I've been at it for a long, long time so I've been watching it (the world of hip hop) first hand almost since the beginning. Not seventies South Bronx beginning, but I was in by the early eighties. As far as my place in it, that perception has changed a lot. In the late eighties and early nineties it was a tough place to be, because the climate was a lot more political in hip hop back then. Those were the days of Afrocentricity, political awareness in hip hop, black power and all that stuff. That was tough, but I found that in the mid to late-nineties there was an independent, underground revolution in hip hop music. And that busted the boundaries wide open. So the two things that I used to notice a lot before that I don't even see people thinking twice about anymore are your race and the fact that I'm from Canada. That used to be a really weird thing, but people don't even seem to sweat that anymore.

Brockway: Yeah, it has definitely changed a lot over the last few years.
Buck 65: Yeah, it really has. And I don't worry about it because I figure the main thing with everything I do is to be myself. I don't ever try to be anything I'm not. If people don't get it, or criticize me for it then that's hardly anything for me to get upset about. So if I'm just doing my thing. I ain't frontin'. I ain't trying to pretend to be anything I'm not. I'm just good to go. I'm not worried. If I go into a situation and people aren't feeling it, I'll deal with it. But generally people seem to respect that.

Brockway: So you shot a video for 'Pants On Fire', is that your first video?
Buck 65: Nope. I have a side project/group called The Sebutones with my friend Sixtoo, who's in Halifax. He's originally from Truro, Nova Scotia. We did a video. We paid about $15 at most, to make it. It's really super-low budget, but someone at Much Music liked it and they actually played that video quite a bit. Before that I had people offer to make videos. I had three other videos started that were never finished. One for a song from 'Vertex', one for my old 'Game Tight' record that I did on murderecords...

Brockway: It takes a long time to put a video together...
Buck 65: It does and it really takes a commitment. I just had people doing it as side-projects.

Brockway: You can't push them either, unless you're willing to pay them the big bucks.
Buck 65: Yeah. The difference with 'Pants on Fire' is that I got a grant. We did it by the book. We went through a production company and hired a director who hired everybody for the video. So, it's my first real video. It was a really cool experience and I'm looking forward to doing another one even though videos are sort of a weird thing. 'Pants on Fire' got nominated for a Much Music video award (for "Best Independent Video")

Brockway: Were you surprised when you got nominated?
Buck 65: Well I was because...

Brockway: ...it took a long time for Much Music to actually air the video.
Buck 65: It took a while to catch on. We put the video together with funding from VideoFact and that's a body that comes from Much Music. So you would think that they would play the videos that they funded. But when it went into the meeting where they decide what they play, they basically said, "Well, what is this? It's sort of hip hop, but it's not. It's not this, well what is it." And since they didn't think that they could categorize it, they...

Brockway: ... put it on the shelf.
Buck 65: Yeah. I don't know what happened, or what it took, but we submitted it again for a second time. And they just sort of picked it up for optional rotation. But then they just ended up playing it a lot because a couple of their VJ's or programmers (at Much Music) really liked it. They got behind it. And then I also think that it got a lot of requests. So it started out slow, but eventually Much Music just started to really support the video. The bottom line is, and this is how I felt going into it, regardless of the song, it's a really good video. I can take no credit for this, because it was all the director. I just figured that Much Music would play it because it is a good video. But what I learned, and you learn this about a lot of things in general, is that it's not always about the quality. You'd like to think that whatever it is that you're looking at, it's evaluated on its quality. But, its...

Brockway: ...it's a lot of politics...
Buck 65: ... a LOT of politics...

Brockway: ... unfortunately...
Buck 65: ...yep. But it's kind of working for me this time, so what can I say.

Brockway: Yeah. It must have been pretty rewarding when they started playing the video. You must have been pretty frustrated when the video didn't get on, and for it to finally get on Much, must have felt really good.
Buck 65: It's good. I don't have a television myself. Once, after I heard that they were playing it, I was on tour and I was in a hotel room for ten minutes in between sound check and doing the show. So, I turned on the television to just see, thinking 'as if' in the ten minutes I would actually see the video. But, sure enough there it was! I heard someone say that almost every other day, they saw the video get played. So I think that Much Music was playing it a lot. And it was a cool, cheap thrill to learn what types of videos they were playing it with. Turns out, they were playing me with Radiohead a lot.

Brockway: Oh really. I heard that you met them.
Buck 65: Yeah, yeah. (nonchalantly) I've been hanging out with them a little bit.

Brockway: That must be a pretty big thrill!
Buck 65: Yeah, it's pretty cool.

Brockway: Are you and Radiohead working on anything together?
Buck 65: We're trying.

Brockway: Yeah?
Buck 65: Yeah... so it was cool to see what Much Music was doing with the video. I don't think that they ever played it on Rap City.

Brockway: I used to tape Rap City every night up until I moved from Ottawa to Fredericton, three weeks ago, and I never saw it get played. I heard that you got in a little bit of trouble for driving the cab in the video.
Buck 65: Yeah, we did. I figured that since we were dealing with a big production company, that everything would be taken care of. What I found out was that we were in violation of lots and lots of stuff. So, we got stopped by the police and we got into a lot of trouble. We were facing very, very heavy fines. But in the long run, we just kind of got it worked out and didn't take too much of a kick in the ass for it. The cab wasn't road worthy and we didn't have insurance, stuff like that. It made for quite an adventure. We ended up shooting the whole time, while we were in police reprimand, so we got lots of really cool shots. But, we thought we'd better not use them, except for the very last shot in the video where you see me in the cab and I put my head down. That was right when we got stopped by the cops on the side of the road. If you look close, you might even see the police lights flashing in the windshield. At the time, I was bugging because I thought that we were in so much crap. I was personally in a lot of crap, not the production company, because I was driving. And that's all that the cops cared about. The cops told me that I was screwed.

Brockway: How would that compare to some of the scarier moments in your life?
Buck 65: Well, I've never been too wild, or too much of a thrill seeker, so I'd say it ranks right up there. Luckily, I can look back at it and laugh.

Brockway: Did you get to keep the video footage from the incident?
Buck 65: Yeah, I have all the raw footage at home. All the footage from the cab being towed away and stuff. At the end of the night, after we were done talking to the cops, because we'd been with them for about two hours, one of the cops asked me for my autograph, so we even have that on tape...

Brockway: For all the people who aren't familiar, how would you define your style of music?
Buck 65: That's a tough question.

Brockway: It's almost like spoken word that rhymes to a beat. It's graceful and unique.
Buck 65: Yeah, I'm definitely a content-over-style, type of person. Although style is not irrelevant and I do put a lot of thought into that. I have a lot of jazz background. I've even had a jazz band with whom I've recorded and toured. I learned a lot with them.

Brockway: What's the name of the jazz band?
Buck 65: The drummer is the guy behind it. His name is Jerry Bernelli. He's been around since the sixties and maybe before that. So, it's his band. I learned a lot from him and some of the other members of the band are classically trained, so I learned a lot about music too. I love hip hop. I love the idea of hip hop, and I have for most of my life. The first records I bought were hip hop. But these days, I'm into a wide diversity of music, which is reflected in my style. These days, my musical influences, which provide inspiration are the great song writers. So lately, I've been listening to Simon & Garfunkel, Bob Dylan, Tom Waits, Lucinda Williams and Joni Mitchell. So, I think that's reflected in my music. And I don't even know what good hip hop means anymore. I think a lot of people would say that the best, although that's a very arbitrary term, hip hop that's being made right now would be something like Jay-z. And, I don't really aspire to make that kind of music at all. I'm not trying to limit myself or put any parameters around what I'm doing. I just want to make good music. Music that stands by itself and music you can play for your parents: Music that anyone can appreciate. I've played folk festivals and I've seen it go over well, so that's cool.

Brockway: I was reading about a break that you did for Biz Markie with the John Travolta record, that Len took advantage of. What was the situation with that?
Buck 65: Well, it's sort of like that. Basically, I produced a beat for Biz and it ended up on the Len record. It was kind of a weird thing. But, two unfortunate things happened for me: I wasn't credited as the producer on the album. And then I was saving a really special record for that, which was this John Travolta record. I'm totally old school and political about finding your own breaks and staking your claim to it. And you try to establish yourself as a digger and all that. So, I really had something that people didn't know about, before that. Then a while later, I was reading Ego Trip's book of rap lists, which is a really good hip hop handbook. And, there was this little part in it on Biz Markie and they were asking him about some of his favorite things. One of the things he said was, "my John Travolta record with the break on it." So he was basically claiming it as his. But, I was the one who turned him on to it. He didn't even know about it before I showed him. He was claiming it as his, and that just pissed me off. If I'm the first to rock something, then I want the props that go with that. I basically got fronted on, all cross the board, on that one.

Brockway: I completely understand why you'd be frustrated. If you break it, and he's claiming it, especially in Ego Trip's book.
Buck 65: Yeah, it's pretty wack. It's a pretty high-profile thing. And now, he's probably getting props for that.

Brockway: It's disappointing because you as an artist, you might start to wonder if other artists are doing this too and then there could be a lot of people underneath who don't get the recognition.
Buck 65: The worst part is that Biz should know better. He's been around for so long and he's a digger. He should know. He knows how it works. He knows how the politics go. It's disappointing. You'd think that someone that you look up to, and someone that's been around, wouldn't do something like that. Oh well.

Brockway: After you're done this cross-country tour, what are you plans?
Buck 65: Umm...well...

Brockway: Relax some?
Buck 65: For a little while, but probably not for long. I'm on the road a lot pursuing different possibilities. Like I said, I'm shopping the 'Square' album around. You can't ever really stop working it seems. I'm always writing. And I've got few side-projects that I want to get finished off as well. For example, my roommate, Graham & I are working on an instrumental record. Then there's The Sebutones, my friend Sixtoo & I, were trying to do a new record. But, for the next little while, it's going to be short breaks in between tours. I'm supposed to go to Australia in October.

Brockway: So where can people pick up the next album? Will that be distributed?
Buck 65: So far, it's admittedly small. Like I said, the main idea, was that this was a record that I could take on tour. I'll make it available on the internet at http://www.buck65.com . The label from Halifax, called Endemic, is putting it out. It will be distributed in Canada through No Distribution. So, by and large, it will be made available at your mom-and-pops hip hop record stores. And through special order anywhere.

Brockway: Alright. Thank You.
Buck 65: No problem.

Brockway: I appreciate it.